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parrot_knight [userpic]

Questions about Miss Noble

June 28th, 2008 (09:28 pm)


It seems widely believed online that Donna is going to turn out to be a Time Lord. It's certainly being signalled that there is something special about her. We've seen her having a sudden grasp of TARDIS control back in The Sontaran Stratagem; she's capable of sudden flashes of rapid insight which seem to come from outside her usual thought process, for example.

This evening we had a heartbeat echoing the Master's 'Sound of Drums' from last year. I'm not certain that it was a double heartbeat, as most people seem to think; I thought it could have been emphasising Donna's awareness of herself as the last human being in the universe. However, if there was a double heartbeat, and Donna is a hidden Time Lord, then which one is she?

She needn't be anyone we've met before, though the precedent of Yana/the Master is an obvious one to follow. The favourite is, of course, Romana; but given the emphasis on parallels with The Dalek Invasion of Earth, and the granddaughter/grandfather relationship between Donna and Wilf (which has even used echoes of lines from the Hartnell story), could she not be Susan?

Comments

Posted by: Pellegrina (pellegrina)
Posted at: June 28th, 2008 08:45 pm (UTC)

So Noble = Lord? Come to think of it, Donna = Lady, as well.

I note with vexation that I have missed Jack. Presumably there will be a repeat on some digital channel.

Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: June 28th, 2008 08:53 pm (UTC)

Tomorrow and Friday - and more Jack next Saturday, of course.

Posted by: astitchintime_9 (astitchintime_9)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 05:55 am (UTC)

Posted by: Pellegrina (pellegrina)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 08:59 am (UTC)

Posted by: Rhube (rhube)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 10:35 am (UTC)

Posted by: didiusjulianus (didiusjulianus)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 11:57 am (UTC)

Posted by: Nicholas (nwhyte)
Posted at: June 28th, 2008 08:47 pm (UTC)
doctor who

Oddly enough, the past parallel that my eight-year-old spotted with the heartbeat was with The Macra Terror - though this seems unlikely to be very relevant...

Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: June 28th, 2008 08:54 pm (UTC)
Hartnell words

You never know! I wonder whether Caan was intended by RTD as a self-portrait...

Posted by: Andy (alitalf)
Posted at: June 28th, 2008 09:08 pm (UTC)

I suppose Donna could be a descendant of the Doctor's daughter from a few episodes back - assuming a means of time travel.

Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: June 28th, 2008 09:12 pm (UTC)

Well, possibly, but I think that Jenny is being saved up for later...

Posted by: louisedennis (louisedennis)
Posted at: June 28th, 2008 09:11 pm (UTC)

The moment I heard it I thought "double heart beat" but concluded seconds later that it wasn't. I can't help wondering, with the continued mention of things on her back, whether it will turn out that Donna's time line had already been altered in some way - possibly by a Time Lord - quite aside from any interference by Time Beetles.

Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: June 28th, 2008 09:13 pm (UTC)

Given that the Time Beetle was 'in flux' that could mean that it is in a sense still present. I want to think that the solution will be something we haven't noticed...

(Deleted comment)
Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: June 28th, 2008 09:26 pm (UTC)
Tom

I've been wondering about this since at least The Fires of Pompeii, though I'd been well-primed by the rumour mill.

(Deleted comment)
Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: June 28th, 2008 09:41 pm (UTC)

Posted by: viala_qilarre (viala_qilarre)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 09:12 am (UTC)

I've only seen the episode once so far (and that was at midnight last night, since I had to go out yesterday evening) but I'm pretty sure it was a single heartbeat. THUMP THUMP THUMP. Of course at the time it occured to me that this was some kind of signal to indicate that Donna's true nature was calling her, Sound of Drums-like. But it was a single heartbeat. On the other hand, perhaps it was the extra heartbeat she'd have... you know, she already has one going on.

I've been highly sceptical of speculation that Donna is going to turn out to be anyone we've met before, even if she is a Time Lord. (And if she is, I think her Time Lordliness is hiding in that big black ring she wears, not a fobwatch). It just hasn't been set up. Neither Susan, nor Romana, nor indeed the wretched Rani - every female character that has appeared in the last four years is the Rani, according to the forums - have been mentioned, or even obliquely referenced. Unless you count the Doctor's talking about his children, I suppose, but that's thin.

Last year's return of the Master was foreshadowed by heavy doses of Last of the Time Lord angst throughout the season, and they've pulled back on that this year.

I have to admit to a sneaking desire to see Donna transmorgified into Romana, mostly because I love the character and would like to see her return. But it would be meaningless in the context of the story, wouldn't it? Most new viewers have no idea who she is, and finale is already standing-room only when it comes to returning characters.

I was struck last night though that Donna again re-iterated that she's a 'temp', and many have speculated that this is a play on words. Temp, time, etc. Donna the Temp, the Lady of Time. But I dunno, I can't help feeling that any set-up would be less desperately subtle.

Posted by: viala_qilarre (viala_qilarre)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 09:14 am (UTC)

And then again there's been all that stuff about 'oh no we're not together, we're not a couple, no no no' - whereas Romana ties with Rose as the Companion Most Likely to Have Been with the Doctor.

Bah, you've got me going now! Roll on next week.

Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 09:27 am (UTC)

Posted by: helflaed (helflaed)
Posted at: July 1st, 2008 05:09 pm (UTC)

Posted by: Rhube (rhube)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 09:28 am (UTC)
8th doctor

Here from who daily...

I thought it was quite clearly a single heart beat - however, if she's been humanised by the same method as the Doctor and the Master, it wouldn't be, would it. I like your Susan theory - it would fit in a lulzy way with how adiment they both are that they don't fancy each other. Alternately, it would be equally amusing from that point of view if it turned out to be Romana - I'm not a fan of the Doctor/Romana ship, myself, but I do feel it's the one with the most canon evidence... Mind you, I think even human!Romana would be so fantastically intelligent that it would stick out like a sore thumb, much as Yana/Master did.

Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 10:15 am (UTC)

The arguments put forward in the comments encourage me towards the view that Donna=Romana and Donna=Susan are both fannish wishful thinking; but if neither of those, then what?

Posted by: Rhube (rhube)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 10:33 am (UTC)

Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 10:40 am (UTC)

Posted by: viala_qilarre (viala_qilarre)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 10:42 am (UTC)

Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 10:57 am (UTC)

Posted by: xarl (the_xarlster)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 01:15 pm (UTC)

AH, and this would also kind of fit the description of one of them dying; as 'Donna' herself would be dying to make place for the hidden Time Lady. Clever theory!

Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: June 29th, 2008 02:18 pm (UTC)

This was one of my thoughts; though the truth may well be more prosaic, with a get-out clause.

Posted by: helflaed (helflaed)
Posted at: June 30th, 2008 12:23 pm (UTC)

Well if she is a Timelord she could be anyone. The Doctor's Mother in Law would be amusing...

Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: June 30th, 2008 12:26 pm (UTC)

...and largely in line with Catherine Tate's performance...

Posted by: gervase_fen (gervase_fen)
Posted at: June 30th, 2008 05:43 pm (UTC)

Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: June 30th, 2008 11:23 pm (UTC)

Posted by: serriadh (serriadh)
Posted at: July 3rd, 2008 09:03 am (UTC)

*wanders in from friendsfriends*

I saw some speculation that RTD was perhaps pulling a 'Dawn' style reveal with Donna (ie. the Tardis/Time Lords/someone else) specifically created her/meddled with her timeline in some way so she could fulfil whatever destiny she's going to fulfil on Saturday. That would also be a totally brilliant solution, I think, though I do like the idea of her being a Time Lady.

Posted by: parrot_knight (parrot_knight)
Posted at: July 3rd, 2008 09:05 am (UTC)
McGann

I wondered if she is a little like the eighth Doctor at the end of the EDA books, who turns out to have been carrying the Time Lords around in his head. I don't think that there will be a direct steal of this idea, but it could be something comparable...